Jon & Russ Taking Your Questions LIVE from South Carolina!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Jonathan Shuttlesworth Podcast. To stay connected, go to revivaltoday.com. And now, here is Evangelist Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Well, welcome to South Carolina. We're live for the final day here in Greenville. I'll be in Woodruff tonight for the final night with my best friend in the whole world, Pastor Russell Johnson. Oh, Lori Luke's on in the comments. The Lord says, take back your home. You've been drinking the espresso all morning, watching Braveheart? Take it easy, William Wallace. Uh, me and Russ taking your questions live from South Carolina. Of course, first, we want to cover the war in Iran.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

I'm gonna bomb the shit out of them. Here is uh I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yes, here I don't care. Here's what you need to know. So this was sent to me by a friend of mine in the CIA who helped me with the Ukraine-Russia thing to let me know what's going on full screen. Ten things you should know about the situation in Iran. The regime still controls the country, the Revolutionary Guard has not defected or joined calls for domestic reform. So there's no power vacuum. Yeah, okay. There's no power vacuum yet. The mullahs still hold the core level levers of power. The IRGC remains the decisive force. Um and again, why not when I pushed this on Twitter, people are like, well, Trump's gonna do this. I'm not telling you, I'm telling you what's where we're at right now. This is not a criticism of uh Trump or anything. The RGC remains the decisive force. As long as the Revolutionary Guard stays loyal, the regime survives. The Kurdish entry into hostilities could change the equation. Their involvement introduces a new variable in the conflict. So, like Iran arms like 11-year-olds in Palestine, we're arming the Kurds so that we don't have to send the military because George Bush screwed up so bad in the early 2000s. Everybody's a little skittish about sending troops there, like we're gonna be there for 25 years, so they can't really do that. Uh, but the Kurds alone cannot defeat the RGC. There's the problem without outside backing, they are outmatched militarily. U.S. policy, number six, U.S. policy remains mostly rhetorical. So far, it has been more signaling than direct support capable of severely weakening the guard. Seven, Washington is fighting from a distance. Limited war powers and the desire to avoid American casualties constrained action. I mean, you see how everybody freaks out if we get, of course, you don't want any soldiers to die, but you lose what have we lost six and people freak out. So, you know, thanks to Bush, again, Trump's a little hamstrung on being able to commit troops. Eight, the conflict may burn out quickly if conditions remain the same. It could fizzle within a couple of weeks as momentum fades. So that's good news. Nine, the regime still sees a path to survival because the U.S. has not ruled out the current government remaining under certain conditions. However, that was last night, and Trump issued a statement on that this morning, probably for that reason. Ten, Israel is an ally, but they're a tough one as they are fully dependent on the U.S. but take little direction, if at all, which causes the U.S. problems in the overall region. Back to me. Okay, so again, and uh Nick Topal is gonna have something on this that I'm gonna play. This this thing that happened in like the last 18 months where it became very popular to hate any partnership we have with Israel, you're kind of stupid because um Israel's carrying out our dirty work over there. They're the reason we don't have to commit troops necessarily, and that they helped us accomplish all our objectives. So there's what's going on. Let's check it a little more, and then we're taking your questions live. If you want to go on my Instagram, Jonathan Shuttlesworth, no, no, at JD Shuttlesworth. And you go on my store, you can submit a question there. You can submit it on X, and uh, we'll pop it up, and me and Pester Us will get you some answers. Let's let's check the news a little bit. How this war started. This will help you understand it. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 3:44

I made a mistake. Sounds good to me. Forget it. Forget it. Forget it. Not very often, he apologizes.

unknown 3:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:51

Okay. Oh! What? Why are you doing that?

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Doing nothing. Why why why would you do that? Come on, buddy. Get him! Get him! Shok him! Shok him!

unknown 4:02

Hey!

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Pull him out of there, children! Get somebody on here! Shoak him!

unknown 4:11

Shook him!

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So if you if you uh if you have trouble understanding geopolitics, that'll help you a little. Next. Okay, I like Nick DePolo. He had a good take on this anti-Israel backlash as an Italian. Roll it.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

When were when did we start putting expiration dates on wars? You see what I'm saying? How about growing up America? It's a very fluid situation, as they say. Right. And in the end, it's good for you, unless you don't believe that. So what do you give a shit if it takes six weeks or six months? Yeah. And you go, well, Trump promised. Yeah, he has to, because you guys are babies. You want, seriously, the American public, you're like fifth graders. You fucking you want everything tied up in a bowl. Just like when you watch Law and Order, they f they solve the crime in an hour. It's always like a course. It's fucking Wolf, Dick Wolf. Yeah. Anyways. Um, but you get my point, great. It's like you want everything with a bowl on it. Or and and you people on the right, are you shitting me? This guy hasn't done enough in the last year for you to back him to the hilt. He's taken a bullet in the face and had his life threatened how many times? Give him a little slack. Yeah. They won't because of Israel. But here's my Israel take on that. Did it ever I love this whole thing that ooh Bibby's playing Trump. He's cooking. Bibby's playing Trump like a violin. Do you ever think that maybe our long-term interests intersect and we're getting stuff out of it working with Israel? Yeah. I mean, if Israel wasn't even in it, the Iranians would still be maniacs and threaten to kill us because the Islamic, they want to take over the world. That's their long-term goal. Right. Right? Even if Israel wasn't there, we're gonna have to deal with them at some time. So not so why not deal with them when you have somebody on your side like Israel for now. And then if Israel, it turns out that they were trying to fuck us, we take care of them.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Very Sopranos-like take, but uh I think that's uh uh helps you understand it. Next. Do not join or remain in the okay, this is Candace Owens. Do not join or remain in the United States military. So a call for treason. Trump has betrayed America and expects you to die for Israel. There is no honor in being led by dishonorable men to uh to your death. Former Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz declares that he won't rule out American boots on the ground in Iran. Every U.S. service member needs to see this to understand his calling the shots. I will say, um, if I could address Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu and the people they send over, it's not the smartest when you talk like that. Because that's already your problem with having full American support. And when you're when your defense guy starts saying what our troops are gonna do, you should kind of shut up. But Candace Owens, you know, a call for everyone to leave the military. What Nick said's true. Iran's not mad at us because we're we're we're with Israel. We're a white devil, uh, American devil. Anybody that's not Islamic is gonna get killed. So it's a stupid take from a stupid lady. Next. Iran delays naming new leader out of security concerns. Yeah, because it's just instant death. If you get named the new leader, you're dead in 120 minutes. Next. The last guy was installed at 3 30 and dead by 5 30. Um make Iran great again, Donald John Trump. Is his middle name, John?

SPEAKER_07 7:27

Uh not sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

John slipped out. There will be no deal with Iran except unconditional surrender. So that takes care of my my buddy from the CIA's uh point that that's kind of a weakness. Um after that, and the selection of a great and acceptable leaders, we and many of our wonderful and very brave allies and partners will work tirelessly to bring Iran back from the brink of destruction, making it economically bigger, better, and stronger than ever before. Iran will have a great future, make Iran great again, Mega. Make sure uh thank you for your attention to this matter, President Donald J. Trump. Next. An excellent update on the war in Iran from a credible source. So here's another group, Bill Ackman tweeted out, who's an uh investment guru. Let's read it. Continue. Iran's missile salvas have declined, but Turan's kill chain remains intact. So yeah. Next. Keep going. I'll just do the bullet points. Not a big reader. Targeting Iran's long-range strikes, strike deterrent, launcher attrition, and pre-launch drone strikes. Has it gone well? Three. Iran's emerging strategy, degrading the sensor layer and widening the battle space. I don't know what that means, and I don't have time to read it. The wild card, Hezbollah enters the war. Yeah, that's gonna be a real problem. Bunch of guys in mismatched uniforms in 1984 Toyota Tacomas. Five, what to monitor in the second week of the campaign? All right, I'll read the bullet points full screen. A further decline in the pace of Iran's missile and drone salvos could indicate a significant degradation of the Islamic Republic's strike capacity, especially if Tehran stages fewer than 30 launches per day. Um, you can turn the heat up a little bit in here, because I know Pastor Russell is not dealing with the same amount of body fat as I am. I envy him. Any friction within Iran's security apparatus, especially between the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and Artesh. What's Artesh? Never heard of it. Could indicate growing it sounds like a hookah lounge, growing dissension within the regime's ranks, defections, desertions, or the erosion of discipline within the IRGC could accelerate this instability. Well, any further shift in Israel's using prophetic language, Israel's target set inside Iran, particularly toward the regime's security infrastructure, could hasten domestic trouble for Iran's clerical leadership and ruling IRGC elites. Iran's attempts to widen the war geographically, including by targeting Turkey or Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan. I think I got Azerbaijan. I used to know how to pronounce it. I know why I forgot all of a sudden. They used to advertise it on soccer all the time.

SPEAKER_07 10:12

Azerbaijan?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Azerbaijan. I'll go with yours. It sounds much better. Ramping up a text on the Gulf Arab states. First of all, Azerbaijan, change your name. You know, we got Oman, Yemen. Keep it simple. It's with all the syllables. Look, I'm reading Leviticus. Could spell trouble for Allied efforts to contain the I'm having trouble with contained the diplomatic costs of the conflict. In the depth of the Gulf Arab states, air and missile defense runs low if those nations may be forced to ration interceptors or prioritize the protection of specific areas, just as Ukraine has in its work with Russia. Keep going. Okay, so nice update. Next. Justice the American way from the White House account, which has been churning out bangers. Roll it.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Wake up, Yaddy, some will be some strength of it. Strength enough. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

You can't see it.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, great job. So I ran. You can learn a lesson. That fires up the truth rather than having some bearded guy reading off a piece of mead notebook paper with a freaking flag behind him. We are coming to bring death to Yeah, we heard it for 40 years. Jazz it up a little bit. Next. Brittany Spears arrested. Her lawyer claims she's innocent, but she's not that innocent. Next. Oh, last night, Woodros, South Carolina. Friday, 7 p.m. That's tonight. With Pastor Russell. You should get here. We're near Charlotte. We're near a ton of places. Look at a map for once in your life, and we'll see you tonight, 7 p.m. Next. Roll it. Next. Shoheo Tani. We're in the World Baseball Classic. He's taking pitching from Chinese Taipei. So you know how this one's going to end up. Maybe the best hitter that baseball's ever seen. Roll it. Good night now.

SPEAKER_07 13:11

And didn't he like delay his contract so he doesn't take any money up front?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

It's all getting it's all getting delayed at the end. Yeah. You know, if I was Japanese, I'd still be nervous if I was an American and they were all hurting us into one place. Next. The devil is dead. Kind of harsh. Baba Bonaris. I don't know this guy, so I'm not saying I'm calling him the devil. He could be a good guy. Who knows? Head of the judiciary in Iran was eliminated. He gave the death sentence to thousands of protesters and Iranian women for not wearing burqa in hijab. Let me tell you something. Those Iranian women should not have to wear burqa in hijab, and they need to start passing those out in Alabama and Mississippi and Vermont. Next. Okay, let's see this full screen. This is interesting. Uh Iran missile launches during the first eight days of the conflict. So it's declining. They launched 350 day one. They're down to 15 day eight. 294 drone swarms day one. 541 day two. Then they got nothing left. A trickle day eight down to 12. So they they can say all they want. They're like saving their good stuff for later, but it's not, it's not looking that way. It's looking like they're out of gas. Next. I mean, they actually tweeted that. That like you you haven't seen anything yet. We're we're we're gonna unleash our best stuff now. Really? That was your strategy? Have your top 150 leaders killed and everything blown up? They're like, now we'll show you. The rope adopt. It's like doing the rope a dope boxing strategy, except your jaw is shattered and both your eyes are swollen shut. Watch. Six Islamic regimes, uh uh uh ballistic launchers, along with missiles, preparing an attack on Israel, were tracked by IDF and eliminated before they could fire. Take it away, Israel.

SPEAKER_07 15:10

With all the advanced military tech that we have, I just wish that these videos were like in 4K with color. Yeah, but it's from space.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

No excuse. No excuse.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

I'm gonna bomb the shit out of them. I don't care. I don't care.

SPEAKER_07 15:29

Why do these military videos from space look better still than some church live streams? Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I was thinking about that when there's like video troubles. Like, you realize we're now a quarter way through the 21st century. We're heading towards, we're closer to 2050 than the year 2000, and you're having glitches. Um you have to wonder if Hitler would have used more of a Trump-style cadence if he had been more well liked. Because if if Trump said that, I'm gonna bomb the SHIT out of him, I don't care. And it wasn't like funny, and he was like, I will bother! You know, it's like thinking like, hey, somebody's gotta kill this guy. So again, it's all hindsight, but Hitler could have used a little more humor, less yelling. Next. Um suicide bombing in an age where drones exist, pure love for the game, you have to respect the dedication. Afghanistan announces they will use suicide bomber battalions. If you think Israel's not blessed and the surrounding nations are not are are like equal, unequal footing, you have to reckon with the technology. How are you you guys don't even have remote detonators yet? Again, Lesband going to um Palm Beach Tan, apparently. The nice Venetian bronze and this pasty guy. You should suicide bomb your barber. Next. Marshall, Maine. See you there Monday through Friday, 7 p.m. I'm gonna see my mom and dad. Um of course, if you follow my dad on social media, you wouldn't even know he had a son, but he's gonna he's gonna show up at the meeting. 7 p.m., Monday to Friday, uh 9 Maple Street, Marshall, Maine. Looking forward to seeing you right on the Canadian border. If you're in New Brunswick, you should come down. You've never been to anything exciting in your life. Switch it up a little bit. Next. Breaking Trump, there will be no deal with Iran except unconditional surrender. That's a game changer. Next. Roll it.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Brandon was secretly gay.

SPEAKER_07 17:25

Not a secret. Yeah. And I'm a secretly Asian. Next.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

This is how Tetris professionals play the game. I watched this for a long time. I won't play the whole video, but this is insane. Roll it. Get every trans kid a Tetris game. It'll save a lot of death. All right, great job. Now, let's take some questions from you live. First question. No, can I get that one I sent? I want to do that one first, because it was intriguing to me. Do you know what I mean? When a leader of a union, this question came from Africa. So unions like a spiritual group falls into sin. Falls sins. Falls into sins. Falls into sin. What step should he take to come back on track or to start preaching to the public again? I mean, after repentance and confession. This there's been so many ministries that have fallen in the beginning of this year. Yes, that was real speed, real brother. Um I wanted to deal with this because there's so many variables you can't give a straight answer. It's different situationally. Now, there needs to be discipline in all situations, but it's not the same. One guy having one okay, first of all, you said sin. What's the sin? You know, murder is different than um I don't know, showing up late repeatedly and lying at what time you came to work. And the Bible treats it that way. When people say sin is sin, yeah, like technically you're you're right. But on the other hand, that's like saying, like, uh, when you're at a T-ball baseball game, baseball is baseball. No, it's very different at the major league level than at the T ball level. And the Bible says not all sins lead to death. And why, if all sins the same to God, did he give drastically different punishments for them in the in the Old Testament? So, like, I'm not for any of this, but you do understand a guy having an affair, let's say, with somebody outside of the church once, repenting before he got caught and turned himself in, that's different than somebody that you found out. What if you found out someone has been uh abusing sexually or coercing girls in their own church or guys uh for the last 20 years and he didn't turn himself in and he got caught, and when he caught, he only confessed to the ones that they knew about. Then more came out that he didn't confess, and you find out the guy is basically a habitual psychopath. That's different because you can't trust that guy. You know, he he he he needs some time to show um whether he's a psychopath or not. That's why that's why like groups like the Assemblies of God did two years out uh if you had an affair, they want to monitor you. And that so it's it's different. I could see I you know I could see a return to ministry if the guy, if the if the person initiates the repentance, to me it's different than someone having to answer for what other people exposed about them. And then uh of those people, what happens a lot of times. They, okay, we we heard you were doing this with uh one girl, texting, um, affair, whatever. Yes, I did, I'm sorry. And then three more come out a few weeks later. Oh uh and they didn't tell you everything. So that's different. I I I feel like at one point, you know, if someone if somebody has lived a lie their whole ministry or a large decade of their ministry or a decade, let's let's take one thing out of the equation because people all look at this biblically and scripturally as you should. You also have to look at it from the standpoint of God looks at the heart, man looks at the outward appearance. You can do things. Where your reputation is finished in a place. You know, let's be practical. If I have an affair on a Dallas in Pittsburgh, my reputation and ministry in Pittsburgh is pretty much wrecked. No, it doesn't even have to do with God forgiving you. It's that we did that scripture when I did a uh um a video on this um at the beginning of February. Adult the Bible says adultery leaves a stain that's never erased. As unfair as it is that Jimmy Swaggard had an affair in the uh early 90s and died. What was it this year or late last year? You know, 40 years later, what was the headline?

SPEAKER_07 22:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

That that's life. And then here's another thing I find interesting that kind of ticks me off. You know, I'm not gonna be in this situation. But you know what I would do? I'd I'd learn whatever language they speak in whatever region of Mongolia or someplace I could get a visa to, and I I'd go start somewhere else where they don't know. And and when they do know, there's no there's not really a lot of Christians there, and and you would have kind of a clean start. I find it interesting that um everybody wants to just live their city life in America with their salary. What are you doing to build the kingdom of God? You know? So I I've had this conversation with with with people for a while. It's like I lost my job at such and such a place. Well, go into the world and preach the gospel, but they don't do a blog. They'll do they'll go on a 10, you know, year and a half sabbatical with pictures of themselves uh boating, kayaking, horse riding. You have you literally have no desire to do anything to build the kingdom of God. You've never sacrificed anything, and you're not willing to do, you could go back in the ministry. No one's gonna stop you from going to Taiwan and starting a church, but you don't want to go to Taiwan. You don't want to go to Uganda, you don't want to go to Central Africa Republic, you want to be in your LA, uh wherever. You want to live in that city and stay at your country club and get your salary and not have to work at the perfume counter at Macy's. And that's the feel I get from a lot of people. It's not that they want restored to ministry, it's that they don't want to A, build anything for the kingdom of God, or B um work. You know, that's how I feel. My dad did it did some great videos on it. I'm gonna add another thing to it, but I forgot what it was.

SPEAKER_07 24:43

I think people often want like this one size fits all um easy answer to uh can people be restored or what can they be restored from, or if somebody has you know sexual sin in their life, can they become a pastor again or a leader again? And the reality is that each situation is dealing with a different set of dynamics. And uh, you know, there's people in the scripture who were um restored from uh sexual sin, and then there's also people in scripture who were destroyed because of sexual sin. And so, you know, when people ask like 10,000-foot level questions of, hey, what what can be done in in this circumstance or in this situation? It it's like, well, it depends on all of these dynamics that you're bringing up. Did they confess it and bring it to the light, or were they caught? Did they tell you just what you thought you knew, or did they, you know, come clean? Is this something that has been going on for years or or decades, or this was a temporary lapse in judgment? Did this involve additionally criminal behavior?

SPEAKER_05 25:49

Right.

SPEAKER_07 25:50

Uh, or um uh just you know immoral behavior? There's so many different layers of of nuances and dynamics that that have to be accounted for that like big box answers. And so in the same way where you have some people who are perpetual credit critics, who as soon as somebody makes a mistake, they can they can never be in ministry again. I think that's just as wrong as people on the other side who it's like, well, it doesn't matter what you do or how it gets done or whether or not you repent, you you know, you can always just retain the mantle or the anointing that you had before. And it's like both of those positions are actually, you know, an inadequate response to an individualized, specialized circumstance or situation that you need a lot of information uh as it pertains to that, you know, uh person's you know, level of transparency and repentance and authenticity and uh and submission to authority and and and so on and so forth. And so it's it is hard to answer those types of questions without you know additional uh details. And that's why I think restoration type stuff is best handled by people who are closest to the epicenter of what actually went down, instead of like prognosticators on social media who are operating from you know a 10,000-foot view when they don't know any of the details of what actually is going on, what happened, what hasn't happened, what's true versus what's you know, just kind of salacious falsehoods. And so, you know, I think that there's you know oftentimes a path back for folks, but yes, that has to be dealt with on a localized level by people who have access to accurate information.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yes, I uh I I kind of said this in the beginning, but to restate, like to me, there's a drastic difference between a guy that got in problems sexually, um once outside of anything to do with ministry, obviously still sinned. I'm not you know, don't misconstrue anything I'm saying, like sticking up for it, or somebody that used their position as a Christian leader to coerce women or boys or whatever to take advantage of them sexually based on their position of power over their church congregation. That's like a different level of wickedness because yeah, like God restored David, God judged Eli's sons because they worked at the temple and helped themselves to the women that were there. And and to me, same, I don't feel like I could, I you know, I'm not gonna have that person. I will never hire somebody like that. I don't trust you. The fact that you have the capacity, you know, look like like uh I finished preaching at night, right? Some lady comes up to me crying. This changed my life. Thank you. And you like kind of parlay that into like sex, you're you're like a a really, really bad person. Whereas, yeah, it's still sin if a guy's like hanging around and you know, unguarded time, meets a waitress, whatever. I don't know how it works. I don't really talk to people, I just like playing video games. But uh I mean I've done a lot of bad stuff on Grand Theft Auto, but then you just turn the game off and go on like nothing happened. Um that's different to me. That's like very different to abuse your position as a spiritual leader that way where where I I would take, I would have a much more rigorous and then let's take this stuff, you know, for restoration. How were they who restored them? Their mom, right? You know, their friend? Like I'll I'll tell you, and again, these are all hypotheticals. If Pastor Russell got into trouble, it's it's not really like ethical for me to restore him. I'm his friend, I'm not objective. You need to have, where did they go for counseling? Who oversaw them during how much time were they off, and who oversaw them during that time? You know, uh I'm again, I'm not for any of these things. A guy gets a D okay, like there's a minister, he got a DUI one night. It was the anniversary of his father's death. I don't drink at all. I I think it's a massive mistake. He would have, like a lot of guys do, even that are in the ministry, he'd have a glass of wine with dinner. But that night, which is why I think it's a mistake to have an open door for alcohol, it was the anniversary of his dad's death. They were in ministry together. One, two, three drinks, drives home, D-UI. That's not a pattern of behavior. That the guy was an abusive alcoholic, slapping people in the office and stuff. He's almost, you know, he's an older man. I get it. There's a difference to me of a guy making a mistake and a guy having where it comes out they've had a major pattern of behavior. You know, uh, of that guy was not an alcoholic. That guy was not a drunk. He he he messed up. And there's a difference between messing up and having like a 20-year, like someone, like coming out with some of these ministries that they just like for 20 years, people came forward, they cover it up. That's you're like a you're a you're you didn't make a mistake. You're kind of an evil person, right? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_07 31:16

Right. And and I think people too have to understand that uh like I was doing a uh Q ⁇ A on my Instagram yesterday, and somebody had asked the question about um Lonnie Frisbee, who was super instrumental in the Jesus People movie in the vineyard, and like, well, you know, did Lonnie Lonnie go to heaven? And I'm like, well, yeah, I wasn't I wasn't there when he got in, but yeah, I would presume, you know, he helped lead like a hundred thousand hippies to the Lord before he died, but he also struggled with um same-sex attraction and and homosexuality, and then ended up uh later on in his life dying of AIDS. Although he had you know been open about what he had struggled with and had repented of his sin, so on and so forth, there was still this you know cycle of natural consequence attached to this um uh uh you know foothold that he had in his life related to this you know ongoing sexually deviant behavior. And so um it's it's and I think sometimes people are are unaware of that. Like you even look at at David's life being restored um after sexual sin, but still setting up for you know uh essentially Absalom to lead this rebellion and a ton of heartache and the later part of his his um his you know kingdom in in Israel being torn apart by civil war and family conflict. Like it's not I think sometimes people are short-sighted in the way that they're thinking um when when they're not um like appropriately handling the things of God. It's not just like, oh my God, what would I do if somebody found out about this aberrant behavior? It's this idea that not that God won't forgive and not that you can't be restored, but the cycle of natural consequence attached to that action is going to be oftentimes mess that you've got to unpack for years or for decades. And it's just, and like you're saying, the difference between a momentary lapse of judgment uh or something going on for 20, 30 years that people have kept under the covers and not talked about, not owned up, not been held responsible for, uh it you know, people don't end up skating free. Like nothing escapes God, and it's not it's just not worth it to, you know, obviously in the long run or in the short run, regardless of restoration, it's just it's not worth it to plant minefields in your own harvest field and then just walk over them and blow up your whole life. I mean, it's just not like calculate the risk assessment here. It's not worth it.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Right. And and what he said is true. And I, you know, obviously sin depraves people's minds, so they don't think straight. But there's a law, it there's a spiritual law. Be sure your sin will find you out. Right. It is impossible to cover sin. There's a law that when you sin, if it it if you don't confess it to God and get his clemency, then it will, no one can hide sin. I mean, watch forensic files. It's insane how people get caught. Somebody just happened to be walking by the park and saw and noticed the license plate and thought it was odd the van was there and wrote it down and it gets solved. You know, it is foolish to think you you can hide your sin. But uh you, you know, people get familiar with their sin. They think it's like okay. They get around, and of course, you get around theology that we all sin and that kind of stuff, um, that then you don't even have like an abhorrence for it. But this has been happening so much that I just I like this question ascending from Africa. It's a great question, and I feel it definitely um it has to be taken case by case. I I'll tell you something I don't like a lot that I'm here now, is like don't don't shame. I'll tell you you can tell somebody has no repentance when they're like yelling at the people that found out, you know, a guy gets in the pulpit. Many of you heard I had an affair. I I we all sin. Don't don't stand there and throw rocks at me. When some of you are involved in some stuff too, amen. Like, okay, you're not you're not only you're not sorry, you're like on your way to hell and like proud of it. I uh to finish off another thing that I said, it's like one one person that I talked to before, they said, What should I do? I said, I'll tell you what I would do if I was you. I'd go to Canada or Europe and preach. Because even if if you went to Belgium and started a church and they found out you had had an affair, there's nowhere to go to church there. They'll give you a pass, they'll be thankful that you came to Belgium and started a spirit-filled church where people but but nobody will do it. People actually don't want to do anything to build the kingdom of God. Your average minister has no interest in building the kingdom of God. I know that's a harsh statement, might sting a little bit to hear it, but that's why, you know, why are you not going out of your mind that you've been in the same building for 30 years and and haven't outgrown it? Why is there no desire to expand the kingdom of God? So um that that's what I have to say on that. What do you have to add?

SPEAKER_07 36:44

Well, and I think too, like what I look for um when people have made a mistake and they're um, you know, uh communicating that they're interested in restoration is um what are they motivated to be restored to? You know, when somebody's first question is like, um, how soon can I get back in the pulpit and preach, or what do you think is gonna happen to my paycheck, or you know, those types of things, it's like it's not that that can't be an ancillary or or a tertiary concern. But the fact that it came out of your mouth. The first thing. Yeah. Not like, hey, uh, could you could you help step in and save my marriage? You know, how do we communicate this to our kids? How do I do do everything, you know, in my power and and on my part to help clean this up? When the motivation is like, I just can't wait to get back into that position of influence or power or leverage, it's like you actually haven't learned the lesson. Um, and what I've found is like when with people like when people are genuinely like interested in restoration, you you almost have to be the person who talks them back into the pulpit. Like they're not operating with this like um hungry for position, hungry for platform. It's like this brokenness, contrition, humility, um uh you know, almost dark night of the soul type, you know, just like I don't know what happened. I got I got overwhelmed, I got overcome with sin. I'm an idiot, I made a mistake. Man, I just I'm just hoping I can salvage things with my wife. I'm just hoping I can be a good dad for my kids. It and so I think you can tell a lot by how people respond in that first 48, first 72, because it reveals the the motive of the heart. What are you actually sad that you lost?

SPEAKER_01 38:35

I um, you know, I I I don't know, I probably should leave this first part out because it gets everybody. I'm I'm saying this to give context to what I'm about to say. I was never a fan of Carl Lentz. Like when what came out about him came out, I wasn't surprised. Joe Rogan was looking at pictures I want to show and go like this this guy's involved. You know, it's pretty sad when an unsafe podcast person can look at pictures of you like this guy, this guy's like sleeping with chicks in the church for sure. He's got he's wearing he's shirtless with his shorts down, like as low as they can go without without showing your privates. I saw that. Having said that, you gotta the how what he did after his problem, he did show, he didn't try to like rush back in the pulpit. Do you not think if Carl Lenz would have just left Hillsong and started Carl Lentz Assembly in Manhattan, he'd have had a ton of the people who would have followed him over. It's not like he made a living preaching on holiness and like betrayed everyone. I don't think most of the people in that church cared about about his morality anyway. But he didn't. He didn't say, Oh, all right, Brian, Brian Houston, if you won't live, then I'll I'll show you. He he's actually shown like a great deal of humility and been really slow. Actually, he hasn't come back to preach still, right? Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 39:54

And that was pre-COVID, right? Yeah, it's been years.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

I'm not saying you have to wait that long. I'm just saying, like, that actually was a shocker to me because I don't know anybody. I can't think of anybody that's shown more humility and like not trying to. He did do the thing Russell said. That's why I thought of him. Like, I want to make sure I don't lose my wife and kids. And that's all he's done. So I'm not saying you have to never go back in or even take as long as Carl did, but it's it should be people having to coax you back to preach, not you fighting people to get back into the pulpit. Correct. And you know, dismissing your overseer that was supposedly your spiritual covering, but because you didn't like the restraints they're putting on you, you kick them out and go get another overseer that'll like let you do whatever you want. I would look at all that stuff. Next. Since Israel is God's people, does this mean I have to support everything they do? That is a great question that I'm seeing a lot lately, and I'll let uh somebody that you're gonna hear the best answer from uh on that question from Russell take it.

SPEAKER_07 41:00

Uh you know, the answer to that question is is no, but I think the you know the question itself represents like a false premise. Um you could say, since, you know, I could say, since Maria is my wife, does that mean I have to support everything that she does? It's like, well, you know, of course not. Um, and uh the the fact that um God uh made covenant with Israel uh in the Old Testament, reaffirmed that covenant with the future nation of Israel and the Jewish people in the New Testament, especially by virtue of the Pauline literature, it doesn't mean that uh, you know, you as a believer or uh us as um you know Christians who are part of the church in America have to necessarily co-sign um you know every single thing that Israel does. Every time I do a QA, I get these questions where people will say, Well, don't you know that Israel um has abortion and Israel is pro-gay marriage? And it's like, uh, yeah, you know, I do know that. Yeah, and so is the country that you live in. Um, but when God makes, you know, covenant with Israel first through the you know chief patriarch um Abraham, it's not based on the future morality of the laws of the nation state. It's based on the fact that God is determining within himself to make covenant with uh a people, and in doing so, it proves his sovereign sustaining power. We're talking about uh a country filled with sand the size of New Jersey that has somehow outlasted and outsurvived being surrounded by majority Islamic nations representing hundreds of millions of people who are constitutionally committed to their annihilation, the only nation in history to go out of existence and then come back into existence in accordance with Bible prophecy in 1948. Um, you know, you you just look at some of the um like historical facts and it leads you to the conclusion that somebody is making covenant with this nation. You know, somebody's hand is on this nation. Uh, of course, as as believers, we read in the scripture and and we know that it's the Lord's hand, but it but it doesn't mean that um everything that they do is going to you know somehow line up with our you know Western notion of New Testament morality. It's like that that's not God doesn't make covenant with with Abraham and then the nation of Israel because in the year of our Lord 2026, um the laws on the books of the nation of Israel are going to be tantamount or parallel to you know Old Testament ethic. That that got God makes covenant with Israel to prove a point that um when I raise somebody up, there's no objection from man, there's no objection from another nation, no objection from another totalitarian government that can. Take them out. When I make covenant with uh a nation, their that their lineage is preserved by virtue of the fact that I am a covenant-keeping God. And so um, in the same way that uh because you know your spouse is your spouse, that doesn't mean you have to agree with everything that they do, or your pastor is your pastor, your kids are your kids, you don't have to agree with everything they do. It's it's like no no nobody is making that argument. And when you substitute the word Israel for any other type of relationship that you have, the entire question falls apart because it's a false premise. No, we're not uh saying that if you believe in covenant, it means you have to co-sign on every single thing that that Israel has done, you know, in the last um 24 months. What it does mean is that you understand that when God makes covenant, he's not, he didn't ask your permission and and he didn't even ask your opinion. When God makes covenant, it's it's to prove a point about his immutable character uh and about his ability to preserve uh uh a people unto himself. And that that Paul later writes, you know, in the book of Romans that there will come a day where all of Israel will be saved. Um and you know, when Christ returns, Christ is not returning as a Gentile. He's returning as as a Jew. He is the Jewish Messiah. Salvation is of the Jews, first to the Jew and then to the Gentile. I mean, so so all of these things are not about God like saying, I like this group of people more than I like this group of people. God is making a point. I am the covenant-keeping God. Um, I I uphold my word even above my name. When I make a promise, I intend to keep it. All the promises of God are yes and amen. If you can find a place in history where God has broken his promise, then the entire premise of scripture falls apart. So God is deadly serious about covenant, and and covenant is not based on our morality, it's based on his, which is why Paul says that even when we are unfaithful, he is faithful. The calling and gifting is irrevocable and without repentance. You know, we apply that broadly to like Christianity, but Paul is writing that more contextually to the Jewish people. And so it's it's um, you know, when people like get on Google or Wikipedia and they're like, well, I Israel has really liberal policies. And are, you know, is this is this really the the thing that God supports? It's like you're you're missing the point because you're fundamentally misstating the premise of covenant. God makes covenant with Israel to prove that even when we are not faithful, even when we miss the point, um, God is still faithful to um fulfill his word because he's purposed within himself in eternities past to to to to to do exactly uh what the scriptures have communicated that that he is desiring to do. And so, no, you don't have to support everything. Um you don't have to support anything. Uh, but but God is the one who who keeps his covenant, God is the one who watches uh Jerusalem, which is still the apple of his eye. Jerusalem is still the most hotly contested piece of real estate in world history, with you know three major religions all laying claim to it, and you know, you can't say Israel doesn't matter anymore, which I'm saying, you know, that that's passed away.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Well, okay, where's Christ gonna touch down? Yeah, not Missouri. Where's he gonna set up his literal kingdom? Why is the whole world focused on that little piece of land and has been from Bible days till now? It's it's it's because the devil knows that's where everything's gonna go down. The Bible prophecy doesn't revolve around Washington, D.C., it revolves around Jerusalem. And that's that's where Christ is gonna return and set up his kingdom. I feel um, I like what Amber Starkey said from our church. Here's what I would like everyone to do. Whatever you're gonna say about Israel, apply the same thing to the surrounding nations. Why do we support Israel? Did you know they don't even they don't even allow churches there? Okay, now do Jordan, now do Oman, now do Iran, now do Saudi Arabia. So you're you're not back in Israel because they're they you know they're not Christian and they're they're liberal. How about the surrounding nations? Do this drape yourself in an American flag or a Christian flag and walk around Jerusalem and let me know how it goes. Should be okay. And then do it in any do it in Palestine. Yeah, Beirut, Lebanon, anywhere. You're gonna die. You will die that day, at least be kidnapped. Any of those countries. So why hold Israel to a standard that you're not holding any of the the surrounding nations to? Because you have to back somebody.

SPEAKER_07 48:30

Yeah, and and Christ is is you know, land is not agnostic in scripture. But we have in the West uh like a chronically low view of um church, and so therefore we have like a low view of land, but the Bible doesn't. Christ is returning to the Mount of Olives. When he lands on the Mount of Olives, it will split in two. He will walk down across the Kidron Valley in through the eastern gate. You know, he will sit in on a throne in Jerusalem for a thousand-year millennial reign of peace. All of world history will culminate in the holy city of Jerusalem. That is not by accident, that's not by cosmic incident, that is not somehow an ancillary detail. Um, think about how many times, you know, Jerusalem in specific is mentioned, not just in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament, even it says of Jesus, like uh uh in the triumphal entry, he set his face as a flint towards Zion and refused to be moved. And so uh whether you like it or not, all all of all of history kind of culminates uh in in the Holy City. And when Christ returns, he's returning to a geographic location, like that has an address with a zip code. And there's a reason why it's so um uh hotly contested. And even where, you know, the um Dome of the Rock is you know being built on the ruins of the Second Temple, and you know, all of these types of things. It's like, yeah, this is more than just uh, you know, fighting in the Middle East over oil. No, there is something spiritually intrinsic about what's happening in in the geopolitical space um in the Middle East, and uh, you know, I think we ignore it to our our own peril. What God said about preserving a people for himself, namely Israel and the Jewish people, will prove to be true. The nations of the earth in the final battle will gather against Israel to destroy her, and Christ will descend with his angels and the church. And he's gonna back Israel. And he's gonna back, yeah, and it's not, and there's no UN that's gonna vote on it. The World Bank's not gonna vote on it. There's gonna be no international law, there's not gonna be Candace Owens, there's not gonna be a podcaster talking about it. Christ will defend his people. The you know, the the the first time he rides into Jerusalem is on a donkey, the next time he comes into Jerusalem is on a war horse to defend Jerusalem. So, you know, whether people like it or not, the Bible says what it means, it means what it says. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

So here's like the kind of question you get. I'm not my aren't Christians the children of God now, Abraham's blessings are ours. Yes, but you're conflating two things. We're not saying because you have Israeli citizenship, you can bypass the blood of Jesus Christ to go to heaven. You know, you everybody that Jesus preached to repent. Basically, everybody was telling you he was talking to, he was talking to uh the Jews and Israel. But that land and nation, and because of his covenant with Abraham, is important to God. When you start saying that Christians have replaced the Jews, you start having major problems in in end-time Bible prophecy, because there's the whole nation of Israel will turn to God when they realize that the Antichrist, I mean, if you if you've got problems with the Israel now, you're gonna have more problems with them. They will be the ones that receive the Antichrist as their Messiah. But then when he breaks their treaty with them, his treaty three and a half years in, then they realize they've been had, and not 12,000 from every tribe get saved, the whole nation, because you notice Jews do everything in a unit. Look at the voting. It's like everything is as a unit. So as they've unilaterally rejected Christ, the veil gets removed when the Antichrist betrays and they turn to Christ as a unit. Then 12,000 evangelists from all 12 tribes, 144,000 Jewish evangelists, will begin preaching on the earth. So, knowing those scriptures, how are 12,000 evangelists from every tribe going to be risen up if, you know, well, the Jews now aren't even the Jews of the Bible? Okay, then you got a problem. A Bible prophecy is fictitious. B, God was unable to keep his promise to Abraham's descendants. Because there is, don't mix the two things. You have to get saved through the blood of Jesus. You can't get saved just because of your genetics or heredity. But God has an allegiance. Put it like this You see, me and Pastor Russell are friends, right? Terrible example, and it's not gonna happen. But let's say his son, I made a covenant with him. I'm always gonna take care of your family. I just want you to know that. And he leaves, he he ends up uh passing away. His son ends up on drugs, his son hates God, his son has no money, his son is a blasphemer. But he's Russell's child. And I told Russell that I'm gonna take see after your family. He can curse me to my face, he can do whatever he wants to do. I'm gonna look after him because I made a deal with his father. And that's what God did to Abraham. I'm gonna look after your people for for the rest of time, which is why, even when they got majorly out of line, God would judge them. But the people who joined in to judge them would get destroyed. If you touch them, you touch the apple of my eye. Those promises are ours now too, but they're not ours instead of them. You can't get saved outside of Christ. I say, I don't have, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I don't have an Israel flag in any of my churches. I'm not that I know everything about Netanyahu, all that stuff. You don't hear me doing pro-Israel propaganda. I haven't been over to Israel in this rush where they're trying to fly all the Christians over to help them like win the social media war. I'm not interested in that. I'm not even doing that for our government. You know, I'm not just gonna be like a religious mouthpiece for anybody. Trump, Trump, Israel, anybody, but it is a mistake. I mean, just take all the scripture out of it, now that we've gone through scripture. How do you look at that country? How do you see Afghanistan launching suicide bombers and Israel having hacked the teeth of Iran?

SPEAKER_06 54:34

Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

How do you not see that one country is vastly superior in their blessing to all the other nations? It's plain as day to see, and it's dumb to curse that nation. I would not join in. And if you study the roots of it, you want to talk about uh Israel and how Israel controls? How about uh Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Iran? That there's money getting pumped in. Why has it gotten fashionable all of a sudden to go against Israel? They didn't come out from anywhere. They're winning, Israel admitted it, they're winning the social media war. Tucker Carlson gets all his money from Qatar now to bash Israel and go over and show how great it is in the Middle East. And that it I'm just asking questions. Why do we answer to Israel? Did you know all the money that we give to Israel? Let me get ChatGPT. I don't have that hooked up here, right?

SPEAKER_07 55:23

Yeah, it's like a fraction of um of how much uh, you know, when people say, for example, Israel influences American politics, you know, through things like APAC, well, the amount of money that APAC spends on influencing American elections is a fraction of a percentage compared to how much Qatar is pumping into our elections and our university systems, to the hundreds of millions and even into the billions. And if people have a problem, you know, with this conspiratorial idea of like the Jews control the world, you're gonna be real upset in the millennial reign of peace because um a Jew is really going to control the world and he's gonna sit on a throne in Jerusalem. And, you know, this is why Paul warns, he warns against this. Do not boast against the broken branch of Israel, because in the same way that they were broken off, but will be engrafted back again, you'll be broken off and you won't be engrafted back again. And so, like, Israel is not engrafted into the covenant God made with the church. The church is engrafted in to the covenant God made with Israel. And so the promises extend as a both and, but but it, it had, you know, but like you're saying, yeah, you reject replacement theology. And, you know, even like um uh the analogy that you shared, I mean, I think that um even when Jesus tells the parable of the prodigal son, it's like um in reference to some of this, um, yeah where the father says, My son who was dead is now alive again, you know, uh goes uh into the world and is lost, but then comes to his senses and comes back home. You know, I think this is a picture from an eschatological perspective of what happens at the end of days. Because Paul talks about the national salvation of Israel and it will be as if life back from the death, or life back from the dead. And so, you know, there is coming a day where Israel will see their Messiah after, like you're saying, the Antichrist breaks that um uh agreement of peace and there's three and a half years of chaos and the temple's desecrated, they they will see the Jewish Messiah and there will be a national turning, there'll be a national salvation. And if you find yourself boasting against the broken branch of Israel, I mean, but Paul is like warning against that. Like he's like, even if you develop this inner attitude of boasting against um Israel or where you think their current estate is. And by the way, Paul is saying that when they don't even have a nation. They they they they're they're an occupied people by virtue of the Roman Empire. And Paul is saying, even in this pitiful condition, if you find yourself boasting against them, you you're gonna find God turning against you. And that's a dangerous place to be.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

How much money does the United States send to Israel um as aid or in other ways every year?

SPEAKER_04 58:16

The United States provides Israel around$3.8 billion in aid per year, primarily for military technologies. There isn't a public percentage of U.S. military technology or operations in the Middle East carried out by Israel. What we do know is that the U.S. has supplied about 79% of Israel's arms in recent years. The two countries collaborate on defense technology, but the exact breakdown of operational roles is not disclosed.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

In short, there's no Estimate Estimate the percentage of our weapons technology and military technology that's been developed by Israel.

SPEAKER_04 59:05

While Israel is a major partner in defense collaboration, the U.S. overwhelmingly develops its own military technology. Israel contributes cutting-edge systems, particularly in missile defense like Iron Dome, drones, and cybersecurity, but the vast majority of US military tech is US development.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

How much would it cost to operate three of our largest aircraft carriers continually in the Middle East?

SPEAKER_04 59:31

Operating a single US nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, including a strike group, can cost several million dollars per day. Rough estimates put annual operational cost per carrier strike group in the ballpark of$1.5 to$2 billion annually. Running three continually could be roughly$4.5 to$6 billion per year.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Okay, so if we had to have three aircraft carriers in the Middle East to have our planes, it would cost about six billion dollars. We give three point eight, uh$3.8 billion to Israel, and a lot that allows us A to have their Air Force there. America's working with Israel. That's why. Why why not? You got one nation there up until recently that's like on your side that that'll do your fighting for you. And so otherwise, Iran, like you're in Nick DePaul say, they don't want us dead because we back Israel. They want us dead because we're not an Islamic Republic.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:24

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

And so you're gonna have to fight that fight with or without Israel.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:28

And and by the way, the the$3.8 billion that we give, a vast majority of it, like 98%, is designated funding, which means that it's not just, you know, a blank check, spend this however you want. It it requires Israel to spend that money on arms and weapons that are manufactured in the United States. So even like places like the CBO, when they've done studies on this, they say this is actually one of the most successful jobs programs that has ever been invented in the 21st century. Uh it gives them, you know, money like a voucher. It'd be like me saying, hey, uh Jonathan, come preach at um Pursuit, and I'm gonna give you a thousand dollar gift card to the Pursuit Cafe. It's like, well, yeah, I guess you could say I'm giving you a thousand dollars, but it's designated spending. Right. And so it's money that they're spending on American arms that are producing American jobs. And so it's not, you know, just some sort of of a handout. And not only that, but like you're saying, then they use that on those arms to do um uh you know uh a lot of our work in the Middle East, it which is you know, will save American lives and ultimately um saves American money. And so the the idea that it's not a good investment to continue to support Israel, you just have to be bad at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

Or they just tricked us into like sending billions of dollars to first of all, it's not even that much. 3.8 billion in in our whatever trillion dollar budget isn't a big deal. That's one Somalian daycare. Yeah, exactly. We we think of it though. If we had to have three aircraft carriers there, it would be 40% more than the money we give to Israel. And now we don't have to have any there. That they're our base. They let us have our our uh collaboration where instead of an aircraft carrier, we have a state the size, a place the size of New Jersey to store our weapons and munitions for a mutual goal to defend against a mutual enemy, or in this case, attack a mutual enemy. And then the thing that people say, you know, you know, you you got videos of Jews calling Christians unclean goyum and uh how much they hate them and blaspheming Christ. Um have you ever listened to any Islamic videos? Let me ask you this. Can me and Russell right now go on priceline.com, fly to Israel, and book a venue and preach? Yes, we can. Can me and Israel can can me and uh um Russell fly to Israel right now and book a place to preach in Saudi Arabia? Some places actually now you can, but no. We can we can freely preach in Israel. So whatever you want to say, I and I know, I know they're not a Christian nation. Neither is Canada, neither is England, you know, neither is anybody else we work with. Why have this, have you noticed? There's this standard that Israel's held to that no other nation's held to. You know, i i Israel doesn't even like Christians. Neither does the UK, neither does France, neither does Spain. So, so what why do you why do you hyper focus on one nation and you've got no care for like the Christians getting kidnapped in northern Nigeria and people that are actually attacking Christians? Let me ask you this. Whatever you want to catch people on video or recording saying against Christians in Israel, what have they done to kill Christians? How many churches have Jew have Jews burned down? How many churches have Jews stormed in and disrupted the service? None. Who you want to know who does? The people back in Tucker. Islam does. Right. So, and then they hate Jews and they hate you. So why not, since we're both hated, why not work together? Knowing that the other group, I mean, why can't you have the same sense the Irish and Italian mafia had? We know you don't like us. We know you think you're we know uh you think we're a lesser race. But seeing as we both want to make a ton of money off moving whiskey, let's work together against the feds. The feds are Islam, the uh Jews are the Italian mafia, and we're the Irish Mafia. It's a nice partnership. Don't wreck it. Next.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:37

I'm gonna bomb the shit out of them. I don't care. I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Explain to me the difference between mentors and spiritual fathers, because in Africa they tend to mislead many and control many. What are their limits to a young evangelist growing under them? When should I obey and when should I disobey? Because most of the time they contradict. I'm gonna tell you this, and this goes back to the first question. Said, this should not have to be said, but it needs to be said. When the Bible says, when Jesus said, What I say to one, I say to all, no scriptures of private interpretation, mentorship does not involve. I would, I would not go back to a minister's home. Now I'm 45 and I can I can I can fight. But if I was like 16, 20, 23, and some guy says, like, you know, I want you to, I'm taking a special interest. That's how that's how the grooming starts. You're you're special, you know. I want you to come back and live, uh, come back to my house with me. You know, I would be very wary if somebody says, You're like a daughter to me. You shouldn't, you don't have relationships like that as a man in this day and age because too many people have screwed it up. It's shady. Oh, she's like a daughter to me. Yeah, she's not. She's four years younger. What'd you have her when you were four? She's like a daughter to me. Yeah. With the lip injections and mini skirt. Yeah. Like a daughter. I got it. Where's the fat, ugly daughters that are like a daughter to you? Like a daughter on Epstein Island. Yes. So I'd watch that because that's how that's how the abuse of the spiritual authority goes. Where it's like, you know, you're different, you know, you're anointed, and I would like to spend more time. And obviously, some young lady or young man, sadly, Evie, as well, that had no father or unsafe, dysfunctional family, and you're like the hero of that church. See, I think one of the things that's helped me, and I can't put words in Pastor Russell's mouth, but I think him too, is we're both preachers' kids. Pastors are not to be hero-worshiped. And don't get in this church culture. Like, you know, that's what happened at Bethel and IHOP. It's like this world or like the pastors, the head of this, it's very cultish for it to get like that. There's a big world. You know why I don't have a big head? Although I do take a size uh seven and three-quarters head for pretty large. But I'm talking like figuratively, why I don't have a big head is uh man, Jonathan, things are going great. Your churches are going, yeah, great. Let's go to downtown Greenfield, South Carolina and ask a hundred people about Revival Today Church. Let's ask a hundred people about Jonathan Shuttlesworth. Or no one knows. You don't matter. You know, these preachers, you can take your sunglasses off at the restaurant. No one knows who you are. You think you're Elvis in 1975? So if it gets this culture, and people that are watching from my church, that's one of the reasons I'm not around much. I mean, even when I'm home, I would, I'm not, I'm going the other direction. I'm not gonna be hanging around, chatting people up because so many people have abused that. You're gonna hear my preaching here, you're gonna hear my preaching at night. I'm not being shady hanging around and hanging out. It's it's it's it's odd. And if I do it, it's another minister of similar age married with a family. You know what I'm saying? I um a spiritual father cares about you and wants to see you succeed. A mentor is someone you glean wisdom from. A father has a different type of relationship. But none of those things should be used to extract money or sex or favors. I fired a pastor from our church when we started revival today because I saw Bible college students carrying his dry cleaning around. So, where did you get servants from? Why are there three kids at the Bible college that are your servants?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

Where do you get that from? You didn't get it from me? I'm your armor bearer. I don't have any armor. I have a Bible and I'm carrying it.

unknown 1:08:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

You know, I I I appreciate honor. You want to honor the ministry? So is C so we can build the church. I don't need I don't need honor. Honor God. I don't, I, I, I honestly, I don't I like I appreciate it. Somebody um some somebody from a word of faith background last night at church handed me an envelope while I was preaching. I took it uh this for you, seed of honor, a thousand dollars. I appreciate that. It happens on its own. You haven't heard me drop one hand, you know, some of these people have been coming to this revival every night and haven't done anything to honor the man of God. Anybody that talks like that is nuts. Is it scriptural honoring the man of God? Yes. Where was Jesus going around like we're how come nobody's honoring me? No. He was level-headed, friend of sinners, go reach the lost, go build churches. Even the last question you know, should I support Israel? Having said everything we just said for half an hour, who gives a crap whether you support Israel? You think you think the Knessets meeting right now be like, hey, Janice uh said she's gonna support us now after she gets done doing the laundry? You're just a lady. Why are you even interested in like geo, you know, uh, should I support Israel? Let me ask you a question. What difference would it make in geopolitics if you supported Israel or didn't support Israel? Why not do something that builds your family? Instead of involving yourself in things that have nothing to do with you, it's why your children are gonna have to grow up and start from scratch and get an apartment. Because everybody's freaking interested in stuff that has nothing to do, build your marriage, build your children, build your family, build your house, build your church that you go to. And let all the, you know, if you're in the CIA, have some thoughts on Israel. If you're if you're flying a stealth bomber right now, be involved. But don't get distracted with a freaking conflict a zillion miles away from you that has no bearing on your personal life. Christians are all focused and reading on everything, and then they got they don't have a thousand dollars to their name, and they're 50 years old. What does that tell you? It tells you you've been spending your energy on things that have nothing to do with you. Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:58

So And you know, and when you're an honorable person, I will take a second, Red Bull. Like honor, honor finds you. You you don't have to find it. This is what David says. Surely goodness and mercy will follow me. Not surely goodness and mercy, I'm I'm gonna pursue and chase down and then force people to, you know, give me like a hallelujah handshake at the revival meeting because we don't really have our people don't honor me.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

Yeah, maybe you haven't done anything worth honoring. Right. You know, there was a there was a pastor that um also dismissed from RTGP because we're not doing this in this movement. You know, sending texts to his congregants, challenge them to give because they're trying to raise$60,000 to buy a Mercedes for his birthday. You have less than 200 people in your church, and you're private texting people. You don't have a Mercedes church. You have a bicycle church.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

Why why are you more concerned about getting a Mercedes than you are growing your church? I'm not I'm not against Mercedes. I'm not against Bentley, I'm not against any vehicle. But when the priority is on the guy and not the work, there's there's there's a problem. And people will honor you. Pastor Russell had uh gave you the plane and you rented the helicopter, or gave you the helicopter and rented the plane to use? Uh the the guy from our church? Yeah. Both, yeah. Oh, they're both. Yeah, I want to see you. I don't want how are you gonna get to Spokane? Let me do this to help you. I'm gonna give you a Pilates, jet to uh uh prop plane to use and a helicopter. He didn't ask for it. People, when you're doing something for the Lord, seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. But and all these things that you would go after, I'll add them to you. The work for the Lord produced the jet, you know, and then people don't get it. Yeah, but I'm believing for a jet. For what? To taxi from your house to your church? There's no what? So you can fly around and tell people you have a jet? Just in the plants doesn't have a jet for fun. He he preaches 300 nights a year. If you'll do a work for the Lord, it'll take you to another level of things coming in. But when you want the things, the ministry is almost just the guys to get to get the things. It it's stupid. I would watch that stuff. Don't get groomed. You're you're sp you're you're like a daughter to me. You know, don't do that.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:16

Right. And I I think sometimes too what people misunderstand about um you know both of us is that they'll they'll see us on stage like communicating or preaching, and then they'll naturally assume this is the most uh outgoing uh people per person ever, you know, because this is you know what they do for a living or what they do for their calling. But you know, the the reverse is um actually true, but it it it's actually, I think, one of the like the gifts that God's given me because it's not in this day and age, this this weird type of you know parental relationship almost that you know, pastors or spiritual leaders will take on with people in their church, um and and then it they end up living, you know, or developing this permission-based lifestyle like adults. Hey, I just needed to come and seek the pastor's blessing. You know, my wife and I are thinking about buying like a used car for you know ourselves in 2026. It's like never ask me. I don't care, I don't want to be asked. It's weird. Well, you you've always you know been my spiritual daddy, and so I'm six months older than you. You know, I I I'm I'm preaching the word, uh, you know, I'm a I'm a I'm a pastor. What I'm not in is like a live-in sobriety coach that becomes the the parent that you never had, and then we develop this kind of it's like do things for people, be nice, go above and beyond, bless people, and and things of that nature. But when I start to hear language, especially in charismatic circles, in regards to like um, yeah, that this, you know, I'm just I'm just I'm just every kind of everybody's replacement dad. It's like that is an ecosystem that is ripe for um abuse.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

Like a branch dividian.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:06

It's weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

It is weird. I and again, honor, you know, is you got the two ditches. You got that ditch, and then you got the ditch that Pastor Russell and I came out of where there's dishonor shown to the men of God and they don't care about them and stuff. But got God will take care of you. I would, you know, if somebody does pay attention to your spirit. If something feels weird, it's wrong. You know, I'd love to have you come back to the house, you know. I wouldn't do it. Even if it, you know, yeah, I wouldn't, uh it's situational. We have people over our house, but it's a ton of people. I don't have like me, my wife, Camila, and some 23-year-old.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:46

Yeah, and if they're like asking like to you to give them like, you know, um private back massages. Which they people do when nobody's home. Could you put the sun suntan oil on my lower back? I can't reach out.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:00

No, but that that's that kind of stuff, you know. But it happens, it happens and it's freaking weird. That's how it starts. There was there's a a lady in the ministry, she was telling me how much she appreciated being in our ministry. She said, There's so much sexual perversion that goes on in the movement I came out of. And she said, Let me tell you how it'll start. She's a she's a female singer. She's like, the visiting pastor will come and give you a hug and go to give you a kiss. And if you recoil, then they're like, Oh, okay, sorry. No, sorry, I didn't mean anything by it. But then if you don't, then they know they got somebody that's like down the clown. Yeah, you're like not gonna put up any guards. So there are wolves in sheep's clothing. You know? It's people that blend in that are actually looking to take people out in the church. Molest, affair, break up marriages, not everyone. You have to be mature enough to be able to process this information without being, I don't trust anybody. That's why I don't trust anybody. Congratulations on playing right into the devil's hand. I don't trust anybody either, fully, but it doesn't keep me from attending church or not receiving from anybody. You have to be able to go to church and know there's wolves in sheep's clothing, but everyone is in a wolf in sheep's clothing. But they're there. And if they show those signs where they ask things that are weird, no one lives in my house with me. You know, hey, Jonathan, our um teenager, or even if they're like a young adult, they're not. Except Christopher Robin. Yeah, my dog. So they're having they're having a hard time. You know, I know if they came to live with you in a dollars, it would like they, you know, that would really be what they need. I'm sure it would, but it's not happening. I'm not having some stray 23-year-old in the bedroom next to my daughter in a zillion years. So they they have sending the teen challenge, which is like it should be called the man challenge. I've never, there's no, there's no teenagers there. They're like in their 60s. Um don't don't go into that trap. Don't let don't let people take advantage of you. Anyway.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:04

And I even tried to like even be very careful. Um uh like we had this um uh experience uh just a month or two ago. There was an issue with uh the roof uh on my house, and um I needed uh uh a repair done because it was leaking. And so, of course, you know, you're gonna trust um uh the people in your church, Christian business owners, things of that nature. And so I called an individual who's a contractor and I said, Hey man, I got this uh uh issue going on um with the house, and I don't know what it is, I don't know who to call, but um can I hire your company to come take a look? And so he said, sure. And he came out and took a look and did a little repair or whatever, and then by the time he was leaving, said, Hey, you know, like this one is on me. And I was like, No, it's it's it's not. That's not why I called you. It wasn't because I I wanted a favor or was asking for a favor. It it's because in this environment I didn't know who to trust that to have come over to my house and address this issue. And so uh, whether you take payment or not, by virtue of my card, I'm putting a couple hundred dollar bills in your pocket, whatever it takes, because I never want the narrative to be that I utilized my position of power or position of influence to somehow get something for free that uh any other ordinary person would have to pay for. And it's like the the reason why I do that is not because you know, I I don't believe in allowing people to bless me or or things of that nature. It's just that that stuff gets so weird and that kind of abuse of power.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

I did that guy's roof. He never even paid me. So for me, I it's funny, like with that with only knowing each other for two and a half years or whatever, I operate very similarly. Like, um, oh, why why won't you let me bless you? You can you can bless me if you want to put something in the offering, or but not this. This I'm paying for. Right. So if you you know, I'll leave it with you, but I'm I'm not taking handouts because I'm a minister.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:06

Yeah, and like for example, like people don't, people from the church don't babysit our kids for free. Nobody comes over and cleans our house for free. Like, I just it it and uh I know that they would if I allowed them to or asked them to. I just refuse to operate like that because yeah, you don't have to worry about what their opinion is right now in the moment. It's fast forward 10 years when you preach on something that they don't like or there's an offense, and then all of a sudden it's like, well, yeah, you know, this person expected as part of the internship that I would just come over every four days and wash their car at their house. And it's like, no, actually, I'm I'm I'm preventing that stuff now by just refusing to, you know. Number one, most of the time I just stay, you know, at home if I'm not on the road preaching, or at our church preaching. Uh, so you know, I live kind of a more naturally reclusive life, anyways. But then if I'm going out, that's why if we're going out with friends and doing a meal, uh, and it's the same, you you operate like this same way. This is the only time we've ever gotten into a you know a physically violent altercation is you're trying to pay for something or I'm trying to pay for something. Because we both operate the same way. If I'm if I'm going out with friends and we're somewhere in Seattle, we're going out to a restaurant, I'm paying for the meal before the meal even starts. Because, you know, number one, I want to bless people. Number two, I never want anybody in my environment to operate uh or or to have an implied expectation that when the pastor is around, you know, we have to take care of him, blah, blah, blah. Like you're saying, no. If if if if you want to sow a seed honor, bless the man of God, do whatever, give in the offering. Um, we we have we we take it every Sunday, you know. We have an offering every Sunday. So thank you for sowing in generously and and direct it to the house of God. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

Yep, I love that. Next. Will Israel go through, suffer the seven years? Yeah, the whole world will. Next. What do I look for in a spiritual covering after church split for youth group? Incomplete thought. What do I look for in a spiritual covering after church split for youth? You're gonna have to write in complete sentences. Next. Why did God make a covenant with Israel specifically and not another region or country? Because he felt like it. And that'll answer a lot of Bible questions. That's like God, there's actually a scripture, I'm the holy one, and I do as I please.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:33

Right. And Israel's a peculiar people. I mean, he he he makes covenant with them as a sign that makes you wonder. It makes the nations of the earth wonder. What is it about this tiny group of people in a tiny nation in the middle of the desert, surrounded by their enemies, that causes them to not only survive, but to perpetually thrive and they like refuse to be eliminated from the face of the earth? Like it's confusing. It could it causes you to wonder. That's what signs and wonders do. A sign makes you wonder like, who is this God? What did like, what is this about covenant that's so powerful? So you know, the reason he makes the covenant with Israel is because he he gets to do whatever he wants and it and it and it makes you ask that question, which causes you to reflect on the fact that God doesn't have to check in with your opinion before making a promise.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:22

I'll tell you another thing that leads me not to be anti-Israel. I always look at who is for something and who against who's against them. And it's like Hillary Clinton, you know, why why are you for why are you for Clinton and not uh for for Trump? Or why are you for Trump and not for Clinton? I don't know. When the satanic church came out in support of Hillary, it was a sign to me. When witches supported Hillary and put curses on Trump, I like to sometimes not be aligned with witchcraft. And then you look at like who's protesting against Israel in downtown of your city right now? Every lesbian, witch, homosexual, anybody writing stuff online, profile, he, he, him, rainbow flag. You know, why is there the same spirit that's aligned against godly marriage, uh godly sexuality that's against everything you're for? They all hate Israel. The people that hate Israel are people that hate me uh unilaterally. The groups that hate Israel also hate me. So I and Israel, they don't cause me problems. Our church in California is a Hebrew school, they're super cool. I really feel like a lot of the problems with people not liking Israel and Jews and stuff people say about Israel and Jews would I almost can tell 99% of the time, you know no Jews. You just can't, you know, like they're like magical people that control the world. They're people. They're like they're meet them, talk to them, they're cool. It's like people don't like black people. You don't know any. Howard Stern, who's not really like an inspiration for me in the ministry, but he used to have this guy on his name, uh I can't remember uh Daniel Carver. I think he was, I forgot to say his name, because if I get facts wrong, it's libel. But I'm pretty sure he was like the grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. So they would have him on the program and make fun of him. Howard Stern's Jewish, huge nose, 100% Jewish, looks Jewish. Anyone knows he's Jewish. He he talks about it. So Daniel Carver comes on. Now, everybody thinks the Ku Klux Klan hates black people, which they do. But more, the Jews are the who they're they're saying is there's nothing lower than a Jew. Howard's turned into Jew. After the third time they had him on as a guest, when they went off air, Artie Lang said, he walked over to Howard and goes, Hey, we're having my birthday party and uh it's at my ranch. I'd love for you to come as a guest. And um Artie said, I said, I said to him, I thought you I thought you guys hate Jews. And you said there's nothing lower than a Jew. And he said, he went, Yeah, but Howard's different. No, yeah, he's not different. It's that when you live in friggin' butt crack, Arkansas, no offense, I'm not saying all Arkansas. Is that the real name of a city in Arkansas? It should be the name of a lot of cities in Arkansas and Mississippi. But when you live somewhere where you've never met a Jew, and then you come up with all these things, then you meet one and you've been with them for three hours, like, hey, come to my birthday, but you're different. No, they're all just like people that the white people that hate black people. If all you do is watch the news and they they they or your feed and they tune you up, watch watching all this, you know, let somebody get knocked out at a Popeyes or whatever, like these people. You don't know any black people. Black people that hate white people. If I knew the white people you knew, I'd hate them too. You know, I was at, I'm trying to think of what town I was in. I think it was Jasper, Texas, at a Whataburger. I think it's where the Ku Klux Klan started. And then it's also where these radical black groups that hate whites are. I was at that Whataburger and I thought, if I was black, I also would hate white people. If these were the white people I knew, I don't like them either. And then, you know, if you if you're dealing with the worst of society, Walmart at 1.30 a.m. black people, Walmart at 130 a.m. white people, Walmart at 130 a.m. Yeah, if you're dealing with the worst, you can get people to hate anyone. If you'd actually go meet people, they're cool. I'm at a Russian church, they're great. Everybody's great when you get to meet them. I bet you I told you about going through customs in Saudi Arabia and they pulled me into the side room. We were like joking around and eating. You know, and they're jihadists. It's hard to hate people you know. The Nazis had trouble with that. That's why you know, you know the reason the Nazis switched to um the gas chambers instead of firing squad? Is they were starting to have a high rate of suicide among the German troops that were doing the squad. Because even after all the public school indoctrination and the Jews are Are lower than rats. It they didn't like kill, you know. You you you you you shoot them in person and then there there's kids and stuff. They're like, uh, they kind of don't seem that bad to me. And they started killing themselves, so they had to depersonalize it. Go meet people, be around people, all kinds of people.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:18

And you know, when you're when your life sucks and you're looking for somebody else to blame, it's really easy for you to develop conspiratorial thinking because you need like a convenient whipping boy to to to you know be the um the the the focal point of all of your ire and all of your uh you know feelings of like the world is unfair and this is you know this is why I'm still living in the trailer park, and this is why I've never been able to grow and develop, and this is why, you know, my taxes are so high. It's really the I'm I'm I need somebody to blame because I can't ever hold up a mirror to my own life or my own failures or my own, you know, lack of you know socioeconomic success. I've there's gotta be somebody to blame. So it's the Jews.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:04

The Jews control the world. Let me tell you something, my friend. You got in that apartment and$8,000 in debt and no job with no help from any Jews. Correct. There was no targeted plan from Israel to keep put you in the economic state you're in. You suck. Period. If all the Jews were wiped off the face of the earth, you'd still be broke. You'd still be broke. Because you're a moron.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:24

Right. And you know what's funny? You said about like, hey, go and meet people, because when you do, you recognize that all of these like little nice opinions you developed in the vacuum of social media are incorrect. You even saw this, you know, when um Tucker um went to Israel to interview the ambassador uh Huckabee, and then you know, Huckabee just bodied him in the interview, and then Tucker is leaving. Um, and then uh he's like tweeting out, I just got detained, you know, by the Israeli government in the airport in Tel Aviv, which was you know totally untrue. But then they actually released security camera footage. Uh, and uh Tucker's like doing selfies with soldiers from the IDF and smiling and laughing, but then like later that day getting on his podcast to you know talk about how like terrible and evil you know these people are. And it's like we've we've got you on security camera footage from three hours ago. Everybody was nice to you. Everybody's laughing, having fun, you're taking selfies.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:20

I've been detained in U.S. airports as a U.S. citizen. That's what happens in airports. You get detained, especially in our international airports. What what what's the big deal? I um yeah, you know, like even that even like our two pilots, our Iranian, the ones that that did these last legs for us, they're my friends. And I had I had a Christian when I posted a picture uh text me. Um oh, I better check them for bombs. They're not Muslims. You're so stupid that you don't even know the difference between Persian people and Arab people. You're you're dumb. You're just a stupid, freaking little isolated person. And I'm not not to get into like um it's why I send Camila to private school, and it's why I may send her to public high school when she gets to ninth grade. That's I like what my parents did with me. I did Christian school up through eighth grade, and then I did public high school. And it like, you have to be around liberals. That's why you don't hear me say these Lib Tards. No, I actually know how you believe and why you believe it. I don't agree. I think it's a weaker way of viewing the world, but I don't just dismiss you. Oh, that's a Democrat. Yeah, but why do why do they feel the way they feel? I've been around them. So even them, you that's why you that's why I have a mocking attitude towards liberals, but you don't hear me have that like vitriolic hatred that's on the rest of conservative television. These liberals are meet them. Even they're not, they're they're all right, they're subaros and stuff. Got a nice station wagon and tons of room in the back to haul their WNBA basketballs or whatever the heck, their matcha lattes and Rainforest Cafe. Leave Rainforest Cafe out of that. That's Russell's favorite restaurant. He loves the smell of mildew when he eats. All right, next. What's something that you used to think was really important, was a really important thing to be successful in ministry that over time you realized just wasn't that big of a deal? Uh people's approval would be mine. It was like it was like shattering when you start off in ministry, or probably anything in life, and you find out, hey, somebody this so-and-so didn't like like what you did, or so-and-so didn't like that. You feel your whole world revolves around meeting with them to getting them back on your side so you can be at peace with the world again. And then you then you just realize over time it's an impossibility. Jesus couldn't do it. Obviously, you won't be able to do it either. And um just let people think whatever they want and not let it bother you, and know that you're doing the right thing before God. What would be yours?

SPEAKER_07 1:32:51

Yeah, I think for me it is it it would be like the um the latest strategy. And I think one of the mistakes I made early on when we planted the the church, you know, 11 years ago was like every time I heard the next coach or the next guru or the next Christian leader or the next you know church growth guy talk about the system they're using or the strategy they're using, it would be like, oh yeah, that's it. That's the golden ticket. That's what we have to develop or adopt. And then I begin to realize, you know, God's creative enough to download specific strategies into specific churches, into specific geographic locations, um, because there's not, you know, like a formula to this. There's broad-based principles for sure that everybody can learn and everybody can apply. But, you know, it's like when somebody calls me and they pastor, you know, like you had mentioned in in Butcrack, Arkansas, they're they're calling me and going, hey, you know, we're kind of like in a similar season as Pursuit is or or as you guys were a couple years ago. Um, what is your strategy? And I'm like, I'm in Seattle. You're do you even have electricity in the town that you live in? Do you have Wi-Fi? Do you have cell phone reception? You know, I'm in a major liberal metroplex on the West Coast, and you're in a town of 600 in the middle of Arkansas. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't some broad-based principles, like um principle number one, don't molest anybody. You know, principle number two, learn how to do math. You know, principle number three, it's a good idea to have money in your bank account. I'm not saying that there's not broad-based principles, but my strategy for how I'm reaching the Pacific Northwest is almost of zero consequence to what God has called you to do in the middle of rural Arkansas. And so, you know, I think for me, um, I really had to go like, um, I've just got to be confident that the same God who called me to plant this church is the same God who's gonna help me grow this church. And it's not that I can't learn or be inspired from other people, but you know, it's not like uh I'm going revival today has to have a Christian elementary school because pursuit has one. And if you guys really wanted to be successful, you are successful. Do you have one? Yeah, yeah. We have two of them. Adults wants to have one. Yeah, and it's like I think you keep spending all the money on fake nails. Yeah, it's it's so I I think for me that's you know, for everybody wants a formula because it's a shortcut. And they just think, well, if I just can, you know, copy and paste. And um, you know, it was funny, we we were doing like a new visitor meetup uh at the church um this week that that Maria Maria and I were at, and we're just meeting folks who've newly become members. And there was a gal from Bishop Dagg's church um who is uh now going to school in the Seattle area, and so she's here on a student visa, and uh so she's attending the church. And I was I was thinking about this in the context of this conversation, like um you know, uh reading all of uh Bishop Dabb's book Bishop Dagg's books and and learning from from what he has done and you know all of those types of things, and then also understanding um that there's a broad-based strategy, and then there's a contextual strategy for your neighborhood, for your zip code, for your church, for your leadership style. And you got to hear God for yourself on that strategy instead of just trying to hit copy and paste, because that's not you know, Dag texted that to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:09

I I uh he wrote, Saw you broke a thousand in Texas. Congratulations. I wrote, Yeah, I'm sure you're impressed. Don't you have more than that in your choir? And he wrote back, different wars have to be fought differently. Wow, I like that. Yeah, where he like actually was like showing genuine like respect, like, like you know, that's he wasn't patronizing you. No, and and the humility to be like, yeah, I have 8,500 in in uh at my church here in Ghana. I don't know that I could have that in LA, you know what I mean? Right, because it's different, right? That's why like I I respect what you're doing a lot, because it it's not just that you have a large church, you have a large church in a place where there aren't even medium-sized churches. Next. But why does he need a helicopter? Oh, I know. If you were playing a church today, what would you focus on the most miss? Pastor Russell.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:08

I think something that's important to think about in the early stages of church development from, and this is a real nerdy answer, but it's in regards to um church government, ecclesiastical structure, and bylaws, because nobody cares about that stuff until there's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:26

And then it matters.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:27

And then it really matters because then you recognize, like, oh, um, I guess the the bylaws have this really onerous process that's been set up that completely voids the senior leader of having any influence or authority in a situation of of of this type of magnitude. Right, and that stuff happens all the time. And it, you know, like in and and now thank God we didn't have uh any type of crazy storms in in in in the early days, and it gave us a couple years to really work and and and hone in some of our bylaws. But some guys, and and I get it, you know, in the early days, you're just like, is this gonna work? Can we survive another seven days? Is anybody gonna show up at church next Sunday? But if you don't have the advice or the gumption or the legal oversight to be able to sit down and go, like, hey, how does this thing actually operate on paper? You don't want that to bite you in the rear end five years down the line, 10 years down the line when there is a crisis of some sort that needs to be handled in a proper way. And so, you know, if I'm if I'm planting today, I'm probably checking that box number. Is worth$1,500 in a legal counsel? It's worth talking to some other churches and going, hey, could I could I take a look at your bylaws and see how you set it up? Are you uh elder driven? Is it congregational vote? Are you set up as a 501c3 or as a 990 or as an unregistered church? You know, what what do you do from a um transparency perspective? How's it governed? How many board meetings do you have a year? How do you do compensations, you know, uh um um uh studies? Like it don't wait until because you know what they say in church growth is this they say momentum covers a multitude of sins. So what happens sometimes is even a church will come into momentum, it'll be like, dude, so many things are happening, it's awesome, it's amazing. Yeah, but then when there's a shooting at your church and uh a dude is dead, when there's protests in the city, when the government's coming after you, when you've got lost, you know, when thing when when the storms is rough, you need to have like a set ecclesiastical structure so that you can lead the thing without being turned into a puppet of the board, or like you said, getting voted out of the church. You plant like it that's gotta be set up in a way because you know It also matters for like the COVID type stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:41

If you have it in your constitution and bylaws, like we we added it to ours after obviously we started the church after COVID, but like that the church will not close for for because that matters in court. Yes, that you haven't just decided to do something, it's actually in your deeply held beliefs and legal structure that this thing exists, that during times of crisis it's not to shut down and provide help, you know, or like with so you you're defined by your constitution and bylaws. I would say, if you were planning a church today, what would you focus on? I would say the thing Pastor Russell said that um momentum covers a multitude of sins, I would focus on making your services as exciting and powerful and impactful as possible. And if you do that, that's gonna solve about everything. If people leave your church after you dismiss the service, and that was awesome. I think we should make that our new church. That has to be the feeling people have when they leave. Not maybe when I'm maybe we'll just order Uber Eats and go home. I don't have any life left in me after being there. You know, your your praise. Listen to listen to Pastor Clarita sing. Listen to Lady at um Pastor Russell's church. Like powerful worship by anointed people, an anointed message by an excited person that's excited about the message. And I don't mean they're like Pastor Marquis in the North End excitement. I'm talking about like action, actually, you know, like excited to get the message out to the people and and and leave it on and up. I could play, but I have like offended enough people for one year. I I don't know why there's this overarching thing that as you get to the end of the message, even if people guys are preaching on it, it's almost like they think you have to go like and and so God will be your helper. So as we close today, and then they start with the slow piano. Quit leaving on a low. Correct. You know, don't make your church a boring place, make it a place that people like can't wait till Sunday. Their friends are there, they love going there, they know they're gonna have an encounter with God. If you'll do that, because most if you flip through live streams, most services are not exciting, they're boring.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:02

Next. Yeah, and people forget too, like that um people have options. You're not a lot of you're not the only church in town, including staying home. And how many churches do they have to drive past to get to yours on a Sunday morning? Um it not only do people have options, but just uh in the philosophical age we're in, brand loyalty has never been lower. So like people are a lot less likely in 2026 to stay at a dead boring church just because it's the denomination that their grandparents got dedicated in, you know, 120 years ago. People want to be a part of something that's alive, that has victory. Absolutely and like every Sunday you've got an opportunity to, you know, uh uh show people what God, you know, is doing by his spirit in and through the ministry and the anointing he's placed on your life. And if you miss that opportunity, it don't matter how well your systems are, how great your branding is, how cool or trendy your church name is, and and inversely, it doesn't matter how terrible your church name is. You know, if it's powerful, you know, in in fact, Mark Driscoll was uh in an interview and they were talking with him about how Mars Hill grew to being one of the largest multi-site churches in the nation and the largest multi-site church ever in Washington State, you know, while he led it. But like, um, but uh, you know, they were asking him, how did you pick the name? And he goes, you know, looking back on it, that was the stupidest name I could have chosen. It's weird, people don't understand it. It's like nerdy Bible humor in a city that's post-Christian. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't have named it that. But like, despite the bad name, people were showing up and they felt something in his services that they weren't getting anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:37

That's right. I like I like what you said, and I um I like that you said about like brand loyalty and all that, because another uh that's a mistake I I see pastors make a lot. And I don't mean now that I'm a pastor, I'm not gonna always have. So why why aren't people coming? Why would anyone come? You you have to earn people coming, and you have to continually earn them coming. Yes, not just you've been coming here 20 years, I'm surprised you'd leave. People, there's restaurants that I love going to. I have great memories there. There are like a couple more bad experiences for me, just it being my last time, despite I have like 12 great years of memories there with my family, because I'm not gonna be a 65-year-old man that goes to this one restaurant that sucked for the last 20 years, but grandpa likes it because it was good in the 90s. And and that's what a lot of pastors have done. It's like, you know, you just expect loyalty because people have been coming a long time, but you haven't served them a good meal in a long time. Next. Uh what oh no, we didn't do that one. What has worked best for you in helping new believers get rooted in the church long term? I would like to hear your answer.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:45

Yeah, you know, we have um different like track programs as it pertains to like new believers class and uh baptism, and um we do something called Pursuit Um DNA, which um tells people uh about our church, but really it's kind of just like uh a doorway into um helping uh explain and teach, you know, Pentecostal theology, what we believe, why we believe it, you know, things of that nature. We have the ministry school. Um but uh I always like something that um uh Bill Johnson said when they asked him in regards to um the discipleship strategy in an interview he did a few years ago. He said, you know, in like 40 years of public ministry, the greatest discipler of people that I've ever seen is a revival culture. So like not that you can't have um 101, 201, 301, 401, not that you can't have um Sunday school, not that you can't have like discipleship track programs and and and we we do that stuff, but it's but it is supplemental, it's not substitutionary to the revival culture. When people get into a Sunday morning environment and they feel uh and sense and experience the manifest presence of God, the anointing, spirit-filled teaching, the word of God like a hammer that that breaks up the heart of stone, um, when people are dunked into that type of river on a weekly basis uh or multiple times a week. Now they're going to men's ministry midweek, women's ministry midweek, you know, to me, like one of the mistakes that uh I think oftentimes churches in the West make is they like divorce discipleship from their Sunday morning experience. So, like my friend Nathan Finocchio says that the less powerful your Sunday morning services are, the more additional discipleship classes you need midweek. Absolutely. And so, like people are being discipled when when we're receiving the offering, people are being discipled in generosity and in and finances, obviously through the teaching of the word, in worship, in communion. Uh like you name it, every everything we do in a service is an opportunity to disciple people. And it's like only in our modern moment, people ask the question, like, what do you do for discipleship? Like, we need what's the program that you subscribe to? Like, we really need small groups here. Well, maybe we do or maybe we don't. Like, I I I think I disagree with the framing of the question. You know, when Jesus is calling his disciples, none of them are responding, like, okay, so like what are we gonna do? Like, what's the curriculum? He's like, hey, follow me. And you're gonna see a bunch of stuff, and your life's gonna be changed. So when people are like, What what does revival today, what does pursuit do for discipleship? I'm like, do you if you attend my church on a regular basis, there is a 0.0% chance that your life will be the same 90 days after you start attending? Yeah, and I have that's discipleship.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:42

I haven't known you that long, so maybe maybe you have a different answer, but like no one in the trad in the modern sense, nobody discipled me. I just like went to church and had Christian parents. Same with you. Was there like a track program at your church, bro? No, it's it it you you you're raised in a spirit-filled environment. You do you do too. But I, you know, I like what you said, uh Nathan Finocchio said. I agree with that. I I and I would say, since a lot of these are coming from pastors, um have discipleship as a supplement for people that want to grow deeper in the word and all that. But you're not, I hear a lot of guys that it's like they think that's gonna grow their church, or starting home groups is gonna start their church. The main engine is the main event. Yes. When they come on Sunday, then that other stuff can make it make it better.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:27

Well, you know, like I had never been to an NHL game before. Um you uh took me to the um Pittsburgh, whatever they're called, Penguins game, you know, and so I've never been to an NHL game. I don't know, I I I've never watched hockey. I don't know how the game works. I don't know when you're supposed to cheer, when you're supposed to boo, you know, whatever. And so I'm getting there and I'm just observing. And by the time the first quarter is over, it's like I know when to do the the you clap on this thing, you shout here, when they do this thing over here, this is what that whistle means. When the lights and the horn goes, that means they scored a goal. Like after one quarter of sitting there around other people who love hockey, all of a sudden I began to pick up the actions, the environment, the behavior, the lingo. Learning the rules of the game on our side. Learning the rules of the game. And then, you know, like a week or two ago, I'm like buying the NHL game on PlayStation 5, and I'm I'm playing it and I'm under, I'm going, oh, I've seen that player before. I'm understanding the rules and the language and the lingo. So, like, yeah, that's a real stupid example, but that's how discipleship works. And so I just to me, I always get irritated a little bit when people ask the question because it's a very like seeker sensitive evangelical question that people think like it sounds spiritual, but it's it's at it's it what what's the what's the program? Like what like what's the what what is the if because if we can't really explain how disciples Works, it's probably not happening at your church. Well, that that sounds great as a tweet. I don't think it's actually true. It works because you show up. Nobody discipled me how to be married before I was married. You know, yeah, you go to premarital counseling where people are like, yeah, hang on for dear life. You know what disciples me in marriage? Being married, waking up next to the same person every day, being faithful to the covenant, learning, you know, uh how to operate and how to coordinate and how to raise kids together and how to balance budget. You learn it by virtue of being in the environment. And so, you know, it's like a lot of times people who ask those questions, they're either not going to your church currently and they're having these lists of questions that they need to get answered before they decide to grace you with their presence, or they've gone to your church twice, haven't been in the last six months, and then blame you for their lack of spiritual progress. That's right. If there was only a track, if you only freaking showed up, got off your lazy ass, committed, tithed, worshipped, showed up, invited, been on a serve team. When you do those things, it disciples your mind, your spirit, your attitude, your conscience, your morality, your values, your philosophy by virtue of being in a spirit-filled church. And so, like, show up. I guarantee you, you sit in any of Pastor Jonathan's services for you know longer than two or three weeks, all of a sudden, phew, your life began to change.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:29

I agree. Let's do one more good one before, and then you're gonna love the shirt I have available for today. Uh what's what's what's a good one to close with? What would you say is the secret sauce behind? I just want to say before we go off the air, we're this is an Airbnb and this family has in our house. We never give up. We say I'm sorry. We like to have fun, we give hugs. I can just tell I would not like these people. And like if Iran does a counterattack on the US and launches missiles, I hope they hit this house after we're out of here. I just want an I don't like you. The fact that I can't imagine seeing that at a TJ Maxx like that's fun.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:10

We should buy that. In this family. Oh, it's on sick. In this family, we believe no one is illegal on stolen land.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:18

I would love is love. I would smoke three cigarettes before I would buy that in a house.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:22

Oh, yeah, yeah. I might smoke three cigarettes on this broadcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:26

Can you imagine if we did that and never mentioned it and just like toddling on sin and stuff while smoking, and like never mention the fact that we were smoking? I'll tell you another thing. I'll tell you another thing. They got no commitment to anything the Bible says. What would you say is the secret sauce behind the growth of your churches beyond anointed preaching? What practical elements help create a church where people stay, grow, and bring others? Um, I'm gonna say something. And then I know I'll let Pastor Russ possibly be more practical. You need to make sure you have a grace of God on your life for what you're doing. I don't know. I just there's nothing wrong with starting small. Mark said a pastor cussing. Wow, ass is in the Bible.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:12

Yeah, it's King James.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:13

It's all through it. Um I feel I feel a lot of people have a calling on their life, but I don't know. Whether it's impartation or something's missing. Because it shouldn't be struggling for long. Like you tell, and yeah, despise not the day of small beginnings, but it's the day of small beginnings, not the decade of small beginnings. Like when you started your church, you tell that story of being in the barn and running power to a neighbor's house and all that. That lasted how long? Two and a half years?

SPEAKER_07 1:53:47

We were in the barn uh, I think two months before we started renting uh a church on Sunday evenings.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:56

Okay. So that you see what I'm saying? Pastor Cody started swelling that was it, the pickle barn?

SPEAKER_07 1:54:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:04

But it's like full now, pretty full.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:06

Packed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:07

And um there should be that. If that's not there, you have to have like the anointing and a grace. Not just the anointing, a gr on your ministry. You need to be in the right city. If I started a church in Seattle, I could have 30 people. God, Pittsburgh's my place. I know guys that don't understand that principle, that had a huge church somewhere and fell in love with like a nice place and just started a church there. You know, like Deer Deer, Deer uh Valley, Utah is beautiful. If I was just like, you know what, I like Deer Valley, Utah. I'm gonna go start a church there. You think there's gonna be a$5.3 million building there waiting for me and all these things that just are supernatural? You have to know where you're supposed to be, and you have to be you have to have power from God and a grace to do ministry. Exactly the right thing. I mean, look, look. I can I mean there's there's a few. You saw people that like did what I, you know, traveled, started a church, or had a church and started traveling because there's something to it, started renting a jet. It all stopped in like two months, tops, three months, had to give the jet. You can't just do it. You have to do what the Lord says, where the Lord says to do it. And um, I can't, I wish there was one to just tell everyone do this, this, this, and this. But you have to be led by the spirit. And and you really have to be led by the spirit, and you really, really have to be led by the spirit. You have to know exactly by the spirit and learn to be sensitive to your to the to your spirit. Like this feels right here. I have a good feeling about this. I I have this idea, I'm gonna do it. You know this. I had the Lord speak to me. Not that we have a zillion people. I mean, Stephen Furtick's got ten times the amount watching that that I have, but it's not a small amount of people watching, and it brings in uh$12 million a year doing these broadcasts. You know how it started? When I was off the road. The Lord said, you preach when you're on the road, people get turned on to the things of God, and they're not hearing the teaching to follow up on at their church. Take time during the day when you're home and teach. And when I'm home, turned into like the days when I'm on the road rather than doing a morning service. This is this is a better use of time rather than just doing two of the same thing in the day. Well, God's blessed it. But then other people just see me brought like, oh, that must be how we get so much money. So we'll start broadcasting every day and take an offering every day, and nothing comes in because it's not God ordained. Figure out what God has for you to do by the Holy Ghost. And very few people do that. Now, but they said practical, and what I said is impractical. So you you you you go with the practical part.

SPEAKER_07 1:56:59

Um maybe I heard this quote uh from from from you, you know, a few months ago, but um you get what you preach for. And people, um, you know, my my worship pastor told me this uh once because I was asking him about how he determines the songs he picks that that that he's gonna lead on a Sunday morning. And he said, Well, you know, number one, I'm I'm taking into account what you've communicated about the culture of the type of church that that you feel led to build. But he goes, number two, you know, I'm recognizing that Monday through Saturday, people, a lot of people live in a world where their boss hates them, their wife hates them, their kids hate them, there's not one positive interaction that they have, not one positive um human touch that they'll have. By the time they come in on Sunday morning, some of them are one encouragement away from success or one discouragement away from ending their life. And so I've I I've made the determination that I want to lead people in victory, lead people in faith. I want them feeling better about God and feeling better about themselves and their tomorrow by the time they leave this service. If if if people need more Lexapro by the time that they leave your services instead of less, you're you're not doing it right. And so to me, um, like uh I have um one of these, uh one of my friends who goes to the church, he he'd been there from day one, and he always reminds me like every Sunday, which I actually like. Like, like he reminds me, and I don't try to shy away from it, but he reminds me, he's like, Russ, I told you this from the beginning, you're like a more prophetic version of Joel Osteen. And uh I you know, and I was like, and I know a lot of people like hate Joel, but nobody goes to Joel's church and feels worse about themselves by the time they leave. Right. People need hope, peep people need victory, people need faith.

unknown 1:58:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:52

Why so many people listen to Joel Osteen? All he ever does is talk about encouragement. Yeah, say that again slowly and then write it down, and and uh maybe it'll start to make sense to you.

SPEAKER_07 1:59:00

It's like not, it's not, it's not a it's not a mystery. And so uh if for me, like you know, organizations have um languages, or or maybe a better example would be like um organizations have accents. And what is the accent of your organization as it pertains to the worship, as it pertains to the preaching, as it pertains to the announcements, as it pertains to communion? Uh, because um people um uh, you know, the the cultural train is running in your organization. The only question is, are you the conductor or the caboose? I want to lead the culture by being a voice of victory and a voice of encouragement. It doesn't mean that you can't ever preach on tough stuff or help people understand nuance or talk about the church fathers or, you know, you know, talk about theology or her. It's it's not that you can't go deep. It's that there's a way that you can teach on these things that gives, you know, people are trying to figure out how to pay their bills. People are trying to figure out what to do with their like disrespectful 14-year-old. People are trying to, you know, figure out uh like life, like like real life type of stuff. Um, you know, like somebody asked me on my QA yesterday, they're like, how do you um, how do you warn your church against the heresy of Pelagianism? And I I was like, you know, I don't know if anybody's ever come to pursuit because they are um really needing some advice on how to avoid the the first century heresy of Pelagianism. I it's not that you can't talk or teach about those types of things, but like find I guess what I'm trying to say from a practical per perspective is this everybody else is taken. So just be you. Find out the anointing of God doesn't rest on who you pretend to be, it rests on who you actually are. Figure out who who you are, who you uh what what God has put a grace on your life to be and a grace on your life to do. And and uh, you know, the the world needs, you know, your community needs the most authentic version of who God has has created you to be. So I just try to like lean, lean into that. I'm I'm not a moderate, I'm a conservative, I'm not an idiot, I'm I'm I'm very educated, I'm not uh turn and burn, you know, everything is getting worse. I'm an encourager. I'm just like leaning into that type of stuff. And I think God is God is breathing on it. But it speaks to um what uh Pastor Jonathan was saying in regards to um what's something that you would have done earlier on in the in the church plant days, and you were like, focus on having quality Sundays. Uh most people in the West, you'll be lucky to get them at church every week, let alone multiple times a week. So if I'm getting somebody, you know, an average of 2.8 times a month, I want the 2.8 times they're in church to be the hour of power, to be victory, to be faith, to be because that might be the last time they come up for air until the next time that they're around. And so um, you know, doubling down on making your your church, your ministry, your messages, your worship uh like a voice of encouragement to where people are at. And I think there's something like attractional about that. There is something that we can learn from church models like the secret-sensitive model, which we're not, but there is something that you ought to learn from them. And, you know, they too, they tuned in to like the frequency of where people were at. And, you know, I think the critique is that often it didn't move them maybe down the line as much as they should have been from, you know, maybe a discipleship perspective or whatever, but it met people where they were at. And sometimes we're preaching to people where where we're at, but but not where they're at.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:30

Four out of the people that hang around, like that person you said that had that question. You know, who what are you doing during the week that you even know what that is? And then and then think that needs to be like like you don't even, you're not again, it all comes from you're not around anybody. You you you you live in a little religious, uh Calvin, you know, Calvinist debate, Arminianism world. People don't know any about that. Like he was saying, they need help paying their bills. Their child is being rebellious or not doing well in school, they got diagnosed with a mess in their lung. They want help. That's how Jesus helped. You you cannot lose touch with people. If all if you only hang around with ministers and listen to ministers and engage in theological debates online, your messages are gonna impact nobody without you knowing it. And you're not gonna be saying anything wrong. Everything you can you can have a sermon every Sunday where everything you say is a hundred percent true and nobody gives a crap. You're just like, I could teach algebra every Sunday, and everything I'm saying is mathematically correct. No one cares about algebra, no one cares about what you're talking about. My dad had a saying I heard him say, um the church is often answering questions no one's asking, correct? So you you need to be around people and know what they're going through. Jesus was a man of the people, and you know, he knew what they were going through. He knew about leprosy, he knew about sickness and tormenting spirits that that were bothering people's families, woman with the issue of blood. He met practical things. He wasn't just sitting on a rooftop uh giving philosoph religious philosophy out about and describing heaven in great detail. He preached a word that set people free. And I'm telling you, I'll tell you one since I didn't give any practical things, open your altar up, whether it's for an invitation to receive Christ, prayer for the sick, minister, don't just talk, minister to people. And even if you're not that great at it and you don't carry that powerful of an anointing, first of all, it'll grow the more you do it. Second of all, the fact that you even provide an outlet for people to get personal prayer will set you apart from the pack. Because churches don't do that. That's the first thing that got cut out in the 80-minute service model is any type of personal ministry. So if you'll do that, and it'll grow your church.

SPEAKER_07 2:04:49

Yeah, I feel like people barely even do altar calls anymore. You know, like we got to make altar calls great again. People actually want prayer. People want to come to the altar.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:58

Yes. And if you're gonna give one, give one. So since that guy got offended, we'll I'll use it a second time. Don't give a half-assed altar call. Right. Which I hear people do, it's like an obligatory. Hey, before we go, if any, does anyone need Jesus? Anyone at all? I heard this guy, he does it all the time. I told him not to, and he never listens. It's like been eight years. I heard him on live stream still doing it. I said, you know, I said, you give up on your altar call before you as you're giving it. Is there anyone at all? Anyone at all means you already don't even know if there's anyone there that needs Christ. If you're gonna give one, give it. Why be afraid that no one's gonna come to the altar? I've had it happen a ton of so you know what you do? You move on. No one? Great. Let's pray forever. You know, you don't have to make it like it's this thing like you failed. Give an invitation. The Bible doesn't say invite people to be saved, it says compel them. Correct.

SPEAKER_07 2:05:46

Yeah, and can't, you know, uh I think this is your quote, maybe, but uh camouflage altar calls lead to camouflage Christians. It's like you know, it pre pre preach to you get what you preach for. Preach toward something. What are you believing for? What do you what are you calling people to? You know, if if um even you know, not not even all of Paul's altar calls were successful. Uh, you know, uh one of them said, I'm almost persuaded. Well, at least they were almost persuaded, you know. I mean, that did they get all the way there? No, they didn't. But Paul was preaching towards something. And uh, you know, I think in this, in this context of um, um in this in this context of like, you know, uh how people how how people lead their services and and and how people manage you know the the the culture of of their churches, people are showing up to church, not because they have it all figured out, um uh, but because they're in need of help. And and people want to be helped, people want prayer. Uh, we had a guy, and you'll be at our Spokane campus in a few weeks for for the revival nights, but we we had a uh a guy bring his daughter um to the Spokane campus on Sunday night for prayer. And she had been having um epileptic seizures in the church that he was uh attending, he had called the pastor and uh asked if he could bring his daughter in for prayer, and uh they responded, um, no. No, you can't you can't bring her in. Uh it's like off hours, and you know, I talked to the elders, and even on Sunday for prayer, you know, we kind of feel like there might be some sort of like hidden sin in your life or something. So, you know, just long story short, we're not interested in praying.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:28

What kind of church was it?

SPEAKER_07 2:07:29

I I I'm not I I don't even know, but he's just kind of telling me this story, and I would have thought, like, there's no way he's telling the truth, but I've heard these stories before. And so then he showed up on Sunday night and he said, Um, hey, if there was time tonight, I said, if there's time tonight, that's the reason we get you got faith to to to see your daughter healed. Let's pray the prayer of faith. I brought him up on stage. I taught on the prayer of faith. We laid hands on her, we prayed that prayer, and you know, afterwards it was like, hey, I'm here. This is my spot. You're my pastor. I'm gonna roll out what because people Because he cared. Right. And people want prayer, people want uh you don't shy away from the stuff that that makes your church distinct. Even in Washington, a place that people would say, Oh, it's not very religious, whatever. We have over 6,000 churches in Washington State, right? There's a lot of places that people can go to that are not the church that you lead. So give them a reason to show up and give them a reason to to stay. Double down on your distinctives. That there is something distinct about your ministry style. Uh uh you know, it it might be uh the the way that you preach or some of the things that you talk about or whatever. You know, I think something that's distinct about pursuit is that I really try to cause there to be an intersection between some of the issues of today and then, you know, what the Bible says historically.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:48

I'm I'm trying to get there to be that Christians in the Pacific Northwest more than anywhere else are having to combat at work. And and Pastor Russell's loading their guns. This is why we believe what we believe. This is why what the other people are are saying, why it sounds compassionate, but it's actually from hell to destroy. And then it's like it's a leader. You have to what Pastor Russell is in the Pacific Northwest, uh, and more than that, you have to be that as a pastor. You have to be somebody that people want to throw their whole weight behind. That's our guy. He stands up for us. And and when you do that, people, people will like back you to the hilt because you you cared about them and their family and you you taught them the word. Be a leader. That's why, you know, like to shut your church down for snow and stuff. Like, be someone. They're risking their life all week. Firefighters, ambulance, um, police, lumberjack, oil field, on down the line. Be somebody that doesn't half-ass it as a pastor. We started multiple churches, and I'm not, I'm not at the building. You know, be somebody people can back that they're proud to have you as their pastor. You're out in front, you have something to say, you have a take on what's happened in the world more than let's just pray for all the crazy things that are going on in the Middle East. Like, tell people from the Bible why they shouldn't be afraid and how it's gonna shake out prophetically and all that. You know, be a shepherd, comfort, comfort God's flock, shepherd God's flock, feed God's flock.

SPEAKER_07 2:10:24

Right. Instead of just this like broad-based capitulation to these ethereal, esoteric, you know, spiritual platitudes where you're talking about stuff and people are going, hey, that's all great, and it might be true. It might even be true what you're saying. How does that impact my life? Yes, how does that impact what I'm seeing on the news? How does this challenge the way that I think? How does this help me um, you know, navigate uh uh some of the circumstances I find myself in at work, you know, because I'm a teacher, you know, in the teachers union in Washington State. Like it people need real help on real practical stuff that, and and the Bible offers those answers. And so, yeah, you know, I I think there's people who have either like pigeonholed me or, you know, have critiqued me about being like, well, you're you know, you're like the political guy. It's not that I'm turning Sunday morning into some sort of like Fox News set every Sunday and always talking about, you know, this or that. But when there's major stuff happening on the news, like, you know, Charlie Kirk getting assassinated, like, you know, the Middle East going into war, you know, things of that nature, um, you know, the Bible actually speaks to these issues. Uh, you know, even like the Apostolic literature in the New Testament, you know, they say, comfort each other with these words. It's like an application to what's going on in places like Thessalonica and others. Like the words of Scripture provide you comfort for what you're facing today. This is how you should think about the world you're in. And um, you know, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:54

Father, I thank you for everybody that tuned in. I pray that you would be a great help to. Them today as you always have been. We thank you for all you've done for us, all you're doing for us right now, today, and all that you're doing going into our future and making every crooked path straight and removing all barriers. As people have asked, help their churches to grow supernaturally. Help them to hear your voice. Help them to be sensitive in their spirit to your leading and to never make a misstep the rest of their life. Thank you for keeping us, keeping us from sin, keeping us from defeat, keeping us from sickness and disease. Thank you for your promises that are yes and amen to those that believe. Thank you for supplying all our needs according to your riches and glory through Christ Jesus. In Jesus' name. Amen. If you've never received Jesus Christ before, I want you to pray this prayer with me right now. Say this out loud. Heavenly Father, I admit that I've sinned. I repent. I believe in my heart. You raise Jesus from the dead. I confess with my mouth, Jesus is Lord and my Savior. Right now, I receive forgiveness. By the blood of Jesus, I am saved. In Jesus' name, amen.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:12

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